Talk:2022 Copenhagen mall shooting

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On 6 July 2022, it was proposed that this article be moved to Copenhagen mall shooting. The result of the discussion was no consensus.

Title[edit]

I created the article 2022 Copenhagen shooting and it was redirected to Field's shooting. Aren't shooting typically titled after the city? I'm going by the logic of 2022 Dnipro shooting. I'm open to suggestions. Wretchskull (talk) 18:15, 3 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I believe it was redirected to this title because this page was created first.

Here's the edit summary used over on that page for redirecting it: "This was created first, idk what title it should be, or whether this is actually notable" Skarmory (talk • contribs) 18:19, 3 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Alright. I have some reservations on the title, however. Wretchskull (talk) 18:28, 3 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Titles have to be clear and concise, and there have been several gang-related shootings earlier this year in CPH. —Biscuit-in-Chief :-) ^{(ˈ[d̥͡soːg̊ʰ] – [ˈg̊ʰɒ̹nd̥͡sɹ̠ɪb̥s])} 18:30, 3 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Were any of those gang shootings fatal &/or notable? Jim Michael 2 (talk) 18:32, 3 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

According to IP user, possibly two dead. Source probably live DR or TV 2 News. Shouldn't we how it unfolds before deciding notability and just edit it for now? —Biscuit-in-Chief :-) ^{(ˈ[d̥͡soːg̊ʰ] – [ˈg̊ʰɒ̹nd̥͡sɹ̠ɪb̥s])} 18:40, 3 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Few people outside Denmark will have a clue where in the world Field's is, so unless any of the other shootings in Copenhagen this year are notable, this article's title should be 2022 Copenhagen shooting. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 18:45, 3 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

A title such as 2022 Field's shooting would work, but I agree with Jim. Not everyone knows what Field's is and most shootings on wikipedia either specify the building it took place in (school, factory, etc.) or the city. Wretchskull (talk) 19:05, 3 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The large majority of media articles about this include Copenhagen - but not Field's - in their titles. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 19:10, 3 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

So 2022 Copenhagen shooting is the best? We need multiple people to form consensus. Wretchskull (talk) 19:15, 3 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, and we need an admin to move it. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 19:19, 3 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This seems reasonable to me. I have no idea what Field's is. Callmemirela 🍁 ^talk 21:53, 3 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

At least it should be 2022 Field's shooting instead of simply Field's shooting. Идеологист (talk) 19:21, 3 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

It's been moved to Field's mall shooting. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 19:25, 3 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Shouldn't affect this discussion, it was just to make it less meaningless while something is determined here. FunkMonk (talk) 19:42, 3 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The correct title is 2022 Copenhagen shopping mall shooting. - EugεnS¡m¡on 19:43, 3 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Copenhagen shopping centre shooting or Copenhagen shopping mall shooting would be better. This is unique for the location, as well as major enough to not need the year. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 19:51, 3 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

It would warrant either the year or place/location. "Shopping mall" could be any shopping mall in Copenhagen. The current title is fine but I would consider including the year. Wretchskull (talk) 20:15, 3 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

"2022 Copenhagen shooting" is the right title to be consistent with most of these types of events. Definitely not "Fiels's mall" as that's that's not a well-known location worldwide. --Masem (t) 20:41, 3 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The other examples listed in the see also section (Sello mall shooting, Alphen aan den Rijn shopping mall shooting) would indicate neither city or year necessarily need to be mentioned in the title. FunkMonk (talk) 21:16, 3 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Given that those occurred in 2009 + 2011, before we've really standardized on such event titles, I would say that those are exceptions and likely need to be renamed to match current practice. Masem (t) 21:47, 3 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Sello isn't known outside Finland, so that shouldn't be in the title of the mall shooting in Espoo. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 23:04, 3 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Perpetrator[edit]

Please stop immediately adding the name of the suspected person, until any official source exists. There have now been added at least two different names. Sasper (talk) 22:34, 3 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

People, no adding suspects or Youtube channels linked to possible suspects please. 85.76.77.77 (talk) 23:19, 3 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Correct. Do not mention the suspect's potential name. English media referring to a certain name clearly haven't studied the case well enough, as the Copenhagen City Court imposed a "name ban" (navneforbud, a type of injunction that forbids e.g. media from reporting a suspect's name; apparently no equivalent English term) on 4 July (source in Danish). —Biscuit-in-Chief :-) ^{(ˈ[d̥͡soːg̊ʰ] – [ˈg̊ʰɒ̹nd̥͡sɹ̠ɪb̥s])} 20:37, 16 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Cancelled events[edit]

Should planned events by Harry Styles & Frederik, Crown Prince of Denmark - which were cancelled because of the shooting - be included in the article? Jim Michael 2 (talk) 23:58, 3 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

No, these are just prudent responses to a security incident, and not a "reaction" to the event. We can't just list everything that was impacted. -ZimZalaBim ^talk 00:08, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, it should. This is the Danish royal family. And the Royal Arena cancellation—an event that impacted thousands of people, shut down the metro on all of Amager, and has been widely reported on in both Danish and international media—should obviously be included. —Biscuit-in-Chief :-) ^{(ˈ[d̥͡soːg̊ʰ] – [ˈg̊ʰɒ̹nd̥͡sɹ̠ɪb̥s])} 00:25, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, because these are the immediate reactions from authorities and the community in response to a tragedy. It belongs in this article. -- Rockstone^{Send me a message!} 00:30, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

No. I agree with ZimZalaBim. Whenever there is an incident such as this, it is prudent for nearby events to be cancelled or postponed. Based on other articles like this one, I wouldn't qualify this as a reaction to it, as those are more usually filled with political commentary. Sideswipe9th (talk) 00:51, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, Jim Michael 2. The Danish royal family cancelled the reception by Crown Prince Frederik because of the mass shooting. Migfab008 (talk) 00:35, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Per WP:RECENT and WP:NOTNEWS, we cannot start listing every thing that gets cancelled because of an event. --ZimZalaBim ^talk 02:14, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

These events are widely mentioned in almost all sources, at least the Styles concert. Wretchskull (talk) 09:16, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not denying that the incident impacted these events. I'm noting that Wikipedia is not the place to list various things that happened to have a short term impact because of it. --ZimZalaBim ^talk 11:46, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 4 July 2022[edit]

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

The gun model listed on the article is wrong. The real model is a Sauer 200STR. Says 20 year experienced weapon expert Christian Vest to news station B.T Source: https://www.bt.dk/krimi/saadan-var-formodet-gerningsmand-bevaebnet-privat-video-afsloerer-vigtig-detalje 94.189.14.134 (talk) 18:39, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

You're right and I've corrected it. RN1970 (talk) 02:51, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

First mass shooting since 2015[edit]

In the lead, it says that the shooting is the first in Denmark since 2015, but according to Copenhagen shootings, there was also one in 2016. Greyzxq (talk) 17:46, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

It says it's the first mass shooting since 2015, which is true. The 2016 shooting wasn't mass. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 19:25, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Alright, thought so but I wanted to make sure. Greyzxq (talk) 19:41, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Four people were shot in that incident, so wouldn't it qualify as a mass shooting? Silent-Rains (talk) 5 August 2022 (UTC)

Requested move 6 July 2022[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: no consensus. Classic partisan deadlock between concision supporters and NCE format hardliners. (closed by non-admin page mover) — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (投稿) 05:53, 13 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

2022 Copenhagen mall shooting → Copenhagen mall shooting – There have been no other notable shootings at Copenhagen malls in the city's history, especially given Denmark's track record of low gun violence rates. Love of Corey (talk) 02:15, 6 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support because this highly-publicised event fits the WP:NOYEAR criteria. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 07:03, 6 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Other crimes in Copenhagen include the year, we should label consistently. 1992 Copenhagen bombing, 2007 bomb plot in Copenhagen, 1996 Copenhagen Airport shooting, 2015 Copenhagen shootings, 2010 Copenhagen terror plot, 1996 Copenhagen rocket attack. WWGB (talk) 07:22, 6 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The existence of 2007 bomb plot in Copenhagen, 2010 Copenhagen terror plot & 2016 Copenhagen terror plot require that plots need the year. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 11:06, 6 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. If another shooting occurs in a mall in Copenhagen in the future, we'll have to move this page again (perhaps a bit far fetched, but could happen). Also per WWGB. —Biscuit-in-Chief :-) ^{(ˈ[d̥͡soːg̊ʰ] – [ˈg̊ʰɒ̹nd̥͡sɹ̠ɪb̥s])} 08:46, 6 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Actual attacks like this are rare in Denmark. I don't see the need to keep the current article title for the far future. Love of Corey (talk) 02:02, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose there have been many crimes, including shootings, in Copenhagen. We shouldn't expect an average reader to know which one was the one in the shopping mall, it's much easier for them to work it our by the year of the event. Joseph2302 (talk) 08:50, 6 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

You're saying that, years in the future, many people will remember that this mass shooting took place in 2022, but not that it happened in a mall? Jim Michael 2 (talk) 11:06, 6 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Jim we've been through this many times now. The purpose of Wikipedia is not to inform people who remember an event at some point in the future. It is also to inform people who have never heard of the event. The year is an important piece of information within the title. Sideswipe9th (talk) 02:26, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per WP:NCE which plainly states to use a When, Where, What naming pattern for events without a common name, and the past events in Copenhagen as mentioned by WWGB. Too early for a common name, and the 2015 and 2016 Copenhagen shootings alone make the year a required disambiguator in this instance. Sideswipe9th (talk) 02:24, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Ambiguous sentence[edit]

“A man carrying a rifle and a knife – which was not used in the attack – had entered the mall sometime before 17:30.”

This is ambiguous.

Try

“A man carrying a rifle, and a knife (which was not used in the attack) had entered the mall sometime before 17:30.”

Famouskiwi (talk) 19:26, 14 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Go for it. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 20:00, 14 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]