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Wikipedia:In the news/Candidates

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This page provides a forum for editors to suggest items for inclusion on In the news (ITN), a protected template on the Main Page, as well as the forum for discussion of candidates. This is not the page to report errors in the ITN section on the Main Page—please go to the appropriate section at WP:ERRORS. Archives of past nominations can be found here.

This candidates page is integrated with the daily pages of Portal:Current events. Under each daily section header below is the transcluded Portal:Current events items for that day (with a light green header). Each day's portal page is followed by a subsection for suggestions and discussion.

A blurb is a one sentence summary of the news story. An alternate suggestion for the blurb is called an altblurb, and any more suggestions get labelled alt1, alt2, etc. A blurb needs at least one target article, highlighted in bold; reviewers check the quality of that article and whether it is updated, and whether reliable sources demonstrate the significance of the event. Other articles can also be linked. The Ongoing line is for regularly updated articles which cover events that remain in the news over a longer period of time. RD stands for the "recent deaths" line, and can include any living thing whose death was recently announced. In some cases, recent deaths may need additional explanation as provided by a blurb; this is decided by consensus.

Anwar Ibrahim in 2019
Anwar Ibrahim

How to nominate an item[edit]

In order to suggest a candidate:

  • Update an article to be linked to from the blurb to include the recent developments, or find an article that has already been updated.
  • Find the correct section below for the date of the event (not the date nominated).
    • Do not add sections for new dates. These are automatically generated (at midnight UTC) by a bot; creating them manually breaks this process.
  • Nominate the blurb for ITN inclusion under the "Suggestions" subheading for the date, emboldening the link in the blurb to the updated article. Use a level 4 header (====) when doing so.
    • Preferably use the template {{ITN candidate}} to nominate the article related to the event in the news. Make sure that you include a reference from a verifiable, reliable secondary source. Press releases are not acceptable. The suggested blurb should be written in simple present tense.
    • Adding an explanation why the event should be posted greatly increases the odds of posting.
  • Please consider alerting editors to the nomination by adding the template {{ITN note}} to the corresponding article's talk page.

Purge this page to update the cache

There are criteria which guide the decision on whether or not to put a particular item on In the news, based largely on the extensiveness of the updated content and the perceived significance of the recent developments. These are listed at WP:ITN.

Submissions that do not follow the guidelines at Wikipedia:In the news will not be placed onto the live template.

Headers[edit]

  • Items that have been posted or pulled from the main page are generally marked with (Posted) or (Pulled) in the item's subject so it is clear they are no longer active.
  • Items can also be marked as (Ready) when the article is both updated and there seems to be a consensus to post. The posting admin, however, should always judge the update and the consensus to post themselves. If you find an entry that you don't feel is ready to post is marked (Ready), you should remove the mark in the header.

Voicing an opinion on an item[edit]

  • Format your comment to contain "support" or "oppose", and include a rationale for your choice. In particular, address the notability of the event, the quality of the article, and whether it has been updated.

Please do...[edit]

  1. Pick an older item to review near the bottom of this page, before the eligibility runs out and the item scrolls off the page and gets abandoned in the archive, unused and forgotten.
  2. Review an item even if it has already been reviewed by another user. Maybe the previous reviewer has missed a problem, or an identified problem has now been fixed. Piling on the list of "support!" votes may also help administrators identify items that are ready for promotion to the ITN template on MainPage.
  3. Point out problematic areas in the nominated article and, if appropriate, suggest how to fix them. If you know exactly what to do, by all means, go ahead and fix it as you see fit.

Please do not...[edit]

  1. Add simple "support!" or "oppose!" votes without including your reasons. Similarly, curt replies such as "who?", "meh", or "duh!" are usually not helpful. Instead, explain the reasons why you think the item meets or does not meet the ITN inclusion criteria so a consensus can be reached.
  2. Oppose an item solely because the event is only relating to a single country, or failing to relate to one. This applies to a high percentage of the content we post and is generally unproductive.
  3. Accuse other editors of supporting, opposing or nominating due to a personal bias (such as ethnocentrism). Conflicts of interest are not handled at ITN.
  4. Comment on a story without first reading the relevant article(s).
  5. Oppose a recurring item here because you disagree with the recurring items criteria. The criteria can be discussed at the relevant talk page.
  6. Use the discussion section of an item as a forum for your own political or personal beliefs. Such comments are irrelevant to the outcome of a nomination and are potentially disruptive.

Suggesting updates[edit]

A posted ITNC item that needs correcting can be addressed in two ways:

  • For simple updates, such as updated death tolls in a disaster, linking issues, spelling or grammar corrections, or otherwise anything that does not change the intent of the blurb should be discussed at WP:ERRORS in the ITN section.
  • For more complex updates that involve a major change in the blurb's intent, that should be discussed as part of the current ITNC nomination.
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Archives[edit]

November 27[edit]

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents


(Posted) China COVID protests[edit]

Article: COVID-19 protests in China (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: Mass protests across China break out in response to the government's Zero-COVID policy. (Post)
Alternative blurb: Mass protests across China break out in response to the government's Zero-COVID policy, which had led to a fire in Urumqi killing at least 10 people.
News source(s): CNN, BBC
Credits:

Nominator's comments: This has been brewing over the last few days but lots more articles now talking about it. Likely may end up in ongoing eventually. Article is currently in good shape. Masem (t) 05:06, 27 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

  • Support Article seems to be of sufficient quality. Darylgolden(talk) Ping when replying 09:07, 27 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support -- Mass protests in a country where protests are extraordinarily rare? Yes, worthy of posting. --RockstoneSend me a message! 09:09, 27 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support - Quality is good. Mass protests notable. The Covid-19 protests in China article needs to be incorporated into the blurb.BabbaQ (talk) 09:29, 27 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support. Extremely significant considering this happened in a country where protests are extremely rare. SBS6577P (talk) 09:59, 27 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Comment Orange tag at the moment, needs to be addressed first. --Tone 11:09, 27 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    I have addressed and removed it. Andrew🐉(talk) 11:56, 27 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support Extremely notable event, added altblurb including the Urumqi fire that started the protests. Azpineapple (talk) 11:31, 27 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support altblurb as Urumqi fire should be included as the cause. Quantum XYZ (chat) 11:40, 27 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
plus Posted. Note: as it stands, the wording of the alt-blurb seemes too convoluted. El_C 12:09, 27 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The fire should probably be included as a separate bolded link within the blurb, as it's notable in its own right. Although it's too short to pass ITN on quality at the moment.  — Amakuru (talk) 17:42, 27 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

November 26[edit]

Disasters and accidents

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Sports


RD: David Murray (cricketer)[edit]

Article: David Murray (cricketer) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): CNN ESPN
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Oriental Aristocrat (talk) 08:56, 27 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

  • Oppose. I've just requested a citation, but even when that is fixed this needs expansion - about half the very short article is about his drug use, and there is virtually no prose about his actual playing (and nothing at all about domestic cricket). Thryduulf (talk) 12:02, 27 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

RD: Doddie Weir[edit]

Article: Doddie Weir (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [1]
Credits:

Article needs updating
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Rugby player Haris920 (talk) 20:42, 26 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Support Article is of good quality TRAVBRUHH (talk) 09:04, 27 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Oppose. The article is missing so many citations I've added an orange tag to the article rather than mark them all specifically. One section is also just proseline. Thryduulf (talk) 12:07, 27 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

RD: Vladimir Makei[edit]

Article: Vladimir Makei (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Reuters
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Foreign minister of Belarus since 2012 Mr. Lechkar (talk) 15:02, 26 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

  • Oppose The end of the biography section is a bit sparse on context. Also, there's a {{cn}} tag on his birthplace. Having said that, more than happy to change to support if those are addressed. TartarTorte 15:31, 26 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support Unexpected death and good article quality. --NoonIcarus (talk) 21:16, 26 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Oppose Sparse articles should at least contain as much as recent article on a person's death. For example, missing from this Reuters article are 1) Criticism of Russia before the 2020 protest 2) Views on invasion of Ukraine 3) Criticism from Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya.—Bagumba (talk) 06:38, 27 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

(Posted) RD: Jorge Medina[edit]

Article: Jorge Medina (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Página Siete
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Notable civil rights activist Krisgabwoosh (talk) 00:54, 26 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

November 25[edit]

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

Law and crime


RD: Mochamad Hasbi[edit]

Article: Mochamad Hasbi (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Jawa Post
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Indonesian politician. Regards, Jeromi Mikhael 17:39, 27 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

RD: Irene Cara[edit]

Article: Irene Cara (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [2]
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Lots of citations needed, I'm busy all day so can't really help fix Awkward42 (talk) [the alternate account of Thryduulf (talk)] 11:23, 26 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

  • Support: The article isn't fantastic right now, but the coverage of her death offers an opportunity for new cites to be added.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 14:54, 26 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    Quality of the article at the present moment is the only thing that matters, and while it is significantly better than when I first nominated it is still not good enough to post, with large sections unreferenced. Thryduulf (talk) 01:21, 27 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support Notable artist. Posting an RD seems appropriate here. Urbanracer34 (talk) 17:22, 26 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    Notability isn't assessed here, every notable person can be posted if the article is up to standard. All sentences and facts and filmography need to be referenced. Kirill C1 (talk) 18:34, 26 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Oppose Short on references.—Bagumba (talk) 06:40, 27 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Conditional Support only if and when the Post-Fame 1980–1999 section is fully sourced Josey Wales Parley 13:54, 27 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Apart from the prose, the tables and bullet-points following the prose also need a lot more sourcing. Please add more REFs. --PFHLai (talk) 14:19, 27 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Wait until all issues regarding citations/sources have been addressed. Support once those are solved. Vida0007 (talk) 17:29, 27 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Oppose A long way from being ready; there are two entire sections and at least five other paragraphs without a single source. Black Kite (talk) 17:34, 27 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

RD: Ismail Tara[edit]

Article: Ismail Tara (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [3]
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Ainty Painty (talk) 10:22, 25 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

November 24[edit]

Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Sports


(Posted) RD: Hans Magnus Enzensberger[edit]

Article: Hans Magnus Enzensberger (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Der Spiegel
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: German author and poet Grimes2 (talk) 12:10, 25 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

(Posted) RD: Börje Salming[edit]

Article: Börje Salming (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NHL, CTV
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 --BabbaQ (talk) 18:26, 24 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

  • Support, one of the greats in ice hockey and the article looks fine. cart-Talk 12:34, 25 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support. Perhaps the most famous Swedish ice hockey player of all time, and had a tremendous impact on the sport as he paved the way for more European players in the NHL. /Julle (talk) 13:21, 25 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Oppose Börje_Salming#International needs sourcing.—Bagumba (talk) 14:18, 25 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Done.BabbaQ (talk) 15:02, 25 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • That's a shockingly fast decline from his public appearances two weeks ago. Unfortunately, I've had to orange-level tag three sections (one, the list of awards, was subsequently deleted), and there are several {{cn}} tags throughout the article. Modest Genius talk 15:17, 25 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Agreed. And fixed.BabbaQ (talk) 16:13, 25 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I see that the national team text was moved, but its coverage remains sparse. —Bagumba (talk) 17:07, 25 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I've undone that move - club and international play are fundamentally different so shouldn't be merged. Looks like an attempt to get around the orange tag without actually improving the article. Modest Genius talk 17:29, 25 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Having a section with a few sentences are weird in my opinion. Someone might be able to expand.BabbaQ (talk) 17:38, 25 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I have some sources that should help with that. I can add to it in a few hours from now. Kaiser matias (talk) 21:46, 25 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Have expanded it, but will leave for others to determine if the tag should remain. Kaiser matias (talk) 01:19, 26 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thank you. Also added one source. BabbaQ (talk) 08:07, 26 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Struck my oppose above.—Bagumba (talk) 01:26, 26 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Comment The death place in the infobox is unsourced, and not mentioned in the body. The death date is wrtten as 24 November, but the cited sources only say his death was announced on that date, not explicitly mentioning when he died. Is there anything more definitive?—Bagumba (talk) 10:06, 26 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I fixed a sourced that states he died at his home in Nacka. But good call to see that.BabbaQ (talk) 10:14, 26 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
And that source also confirms he died on Thursday (24th).—Bagumba (talk) 15:30, 26 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

(Duplicate) 2022 Malaysian general election[edit]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Proposed image
Article: No article specified
Blurb: ​After the 2022 Malaysian general election produces a hung parliament, Anwar Ibrahim (pictured) is appointed as the Prime Minister of Malaysia. (Post)
News source(s): Reuters, AP
Credits:
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Nominator's comments: Election was five days ago, but there were difficulties in forming a coalition for a majority in Parliament to appoint a Prime Minister, and this appointment has just been made today. starship.paint (exalt) 07:09, 24 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Refer original nomination on 19th November. gavre (al. PenangLion) (talk) 08:45, 24 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

November 23[edit]

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Politics and elections

Sports


(Posted) RD: O'dell Owens[edit]

Article: O'dell Owens (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Cincinnati Enquirer
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: American medical doctor - Dumelow (talk) 07:59, 26 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

RD: Betty Ray McCain[edit]

Article: Betty Ray McCain (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [4]
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 – Muboshgu (talk) 15:20, 24 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

  • Support. Article looks in good shape. Skynxnex (talk) 19:38, 25 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support - Sourced and ready.--BabbaQ (talk) 09:16, 26 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Oppose Footnote #2 to https://www.sms.edu/uploaded/images/about/Press_Kits/Notable_Saint_Mary's_Alumnae.pdf is referenced almost 30 times, but the source only says Betty Ray McCain – Saint Mary’s Class of 1950 junior college - former N.C. Secretary of Cultural Resources; first female chair of the N.C. Democratic Party. Something is awry with this one source (at least).—Bagumba (talk) 10:14, 26 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    • A number of those footnotes have just been removed or replaced with a {cn} tag. --PFHLai (talk) 03:15, 27 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

(Closed) 2022 FIFA World Cup Group E[edit]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Article: 2022 FIFA World Cup Group E (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: Spain wins 7-0 against Costa Rica in a football match in the 2022 FIFA World Cup marking the biggest win of a team since the 2010 FIFA World Cup. (Post)
News source(s): [5]
Credits:
  • Strong oppose, recommend SNOW close We do not post intermediate results of an ongoing competition. --Masem (t) 00:35, 24 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Closed) 2022 Chesapeake shooting[edit]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Article: 2022 Chesapeake shooting (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​A shooting at Walmart leaves 7 dead and 5 injured. (Post)
News source(s): CNN
Credits:
Nominator's comments: Significant shooting. Article needs work, but will support once ready. Interstellarity (talk) 11:48, 23 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Oppose Mass shootings are common in the US. We can only post the most severe ones.
NoahTalk 12:13, 23 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Comment In order to make the item more accessible to all readers, the blurb should mention the country where this event took place. Chrisclear (talk) 12:14, 23 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Oppose something like the 606th mass shooting in the US this year alone, not even a precedent for a shooting in a Walmart. Tragic but not in any way unusual. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 12:21, 23 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Oppose - so common now, in fact, that we had a nomination for a shooting just the other day. These are always tragic items, but until there are very few mass shootings in the US, these won't become postable. Lee Vilenski (talkcontribs) 13:20, 23 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • (edit conflict) Comment - The circumstances of this particular case might be interesting to some; it came less than a week after the Colorado Springs shooting.--🌈WaltCip-(talk) 13:21, 23 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Again, oppose routine in USA. That’s exhausting. _-_Alsor (talk) 13:24, 23 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Oppose although if this makes Walmart reconsider its gun sales, that news should probably be ITN. If this gets posted, any blurb should include that (by all reports) it was a Walmart employee, not some random person who wandered in. Only in death does duty end (talk) 13:27, 23 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Closed) 2022 Düzce earthquake[edit]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Article: 2022 Düzce earthquake (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​A magnitude 6.1 earthquake in Düzce, Turkey injures more than 50 people. (Post)
News source(s): Retures, Al Jazeera, Bloomberg, Independent
Credits:
 Ainty Painty (talk) 09:38, 23 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Oppose Earthquakes can be damaging and fork up a few casualties but not all are suitable for ITN. This event pales in comparison to the one in Indonesdia—casualty numbers are minimal. Dora the Axe-plorer (explore) 10:11, 23 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Oppose. Per Dora the Axe-plorer. Good faith nomination but unless there are many deaths I don’t see the need to post to ITN. Let’s just say that compared to this we have bigger fishes to fry. SBS6577P (talk) 10:55, 23 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Oppose per above. _-_Alsor (talk) 13:28, 23 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Oppose. I agree with all the comments above; not all earthquakes need to be blurbed, especially those that are "relatively" minor like this one. RIP to the 2 fatalities though. Vida0007 (talk) 19:19, 23 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

November 22[edit]

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Law and crime

Sports


RD: Frances Campbell-Preston[edit]

Article: Frances Campbell-Preston (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Times
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Thriley (talk) 16:04, 25 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

  • Support new article and seems well-sourced enough. Skynxnex (talk) 19:48, 25 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • This wikibio currently has only 236 words of prose. It's a tad stubby. Is there anything more to write about her? What did she do while she was a lady-in-waiting? Any more on her publications? Well received? --PFHLai (talk) 14:27, 26 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

(Closed) Helicopter crash in Charlotte NC[edit]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Article: WBTV#2022_helicopter_crash (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​A 1999 Robinson R44 helicopter nicknamed Sky3 crashes into the embankment of Interstate 77 in Charlotte, North Carolina, killing two WBTV station employees. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​The FAA and NTSB launch an investigation into the fatal crash of Sky3, 1999 Robinson R44 helicopter belonging to the WBTV news station.
News source(s): [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8]
Credits:
Nominator's comments: First time I've ever done this. Not sure if this is how you do it. But we just had a helicopter crash close one of our major interstates during holiday traffic and two news station employees died. No one knows why it came down, witnesses just say it was in trouble. Because it was 2 news station employees killed this is all over the news right now - CNN, New York Times, Associate Press, you name it. User:EEBuchanan 03:51, 23 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • EEBuchanan Thank you for the nomination; I have reformatted it. Please propose a proposed "blurb" to post in the space to the right of "blurb =" in the above template, and include a link to a reliable source next to "sources =". For additional information and fields, see Template:ITN candidate. Best, SpencerT•C 03:53, 23 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Spencer Realized I messed it up as soon as I hit publish. Trying to fix but there keep being conflicting edits. I am adding my references now. EEBuchanan (talk) 04:02, 23 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Oppose - I don't see that a small helicopter crash with such a low death toll is notable. And I see no coverage about this except locally. In recent months, we are averaging at least a helicopter crash a day, and I've never seen one ITN before. Nfitz (talk) 04:35, 23 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Nfitz You may be right. Still, It's on CNN, New York Times, Associated Press, and some others I haven't had time to link yet. That's not exactly local. The thing is less the crash and more the fact the news company employees involved, that's why people are interested. A crash is one thing. A helicopter crashing and killing two news employees, and their colleagues having to report it on air on their own station, is a bit different/out of the ordinary. Plus a lot of interviewed witnesses are saying the pilot deliberately steered into the embankment, possibly to avoid traffic and nearby buildings - that also seems a bit unusual. EEBuchanan (talk) 04:37, 23 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
How is not local to only one country? And surely most of the other, daily, helicopter crashes are more notable, given the circumstances under which they happen. What is internationally notable here? Nfitz (talk) 05:12, 23 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Nfitz Fair enough. As mentioned never done this before so wasn't sure how it worked. Thanks!
EEBuchanan (talk) 05:17, 23 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Oppose Not quite a commercial passenger aircraft crash, it still involved a crash while people aboard the flight were doing their jobs akin to military disasters, and thus not stuff we cover. Even without that, this is a very minor event, and just because it is getting a burst of coverage now does not make it a long-term encyclopedic topic; its of very narrow scope. --Masem (t) 05:12, 23 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    MasemFair enough. Like I said before, never done this before (nominated one recent death but no ITN before unless it was a long time ago and I forgot) so I wasn't sure if it would go or not. Figured it couldn't hurt to ask.
    EEBuchanan (talk) 05:14, 23 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Oppose -- this does not at all reach the bar for ITN. A good faith nomination nonetheless. --RockstoneSend me a message! 08:31, 23 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Oppose minor accident albeit with sad consequences. Not going to make the top 5000 news stories around the globe for 2022 though. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 09:23, 23 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) RD: Cecilia Suyat Marshall[edit]

Article: Cecilia Suyat Marshall (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [6]
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 – Muboshgu (talk) 00:05, 23 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

(Posted) RD: John Y. Brown Jr.[edit]

Article: John Y. Brown Jr. (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): WKYT
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: American politician, a Good Article - Dumelow (talk) 20:34, 22 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Support - Article looks good.CoatCheck (talk) 04:05, 23 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

November 21[edit]

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Law and crime

Science and technology

Sports


(Posted) RD: Michael Hampe[edit]

Article: Michael Hampe (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): WDR
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: German stage director in drama and even more opera, 20 years general manager of the Cologne Opera, and on the important stages of the world. After Germen reunification he founded a festival in Dresden. Detailed article created last year. - Back then I cut out everything not sourced (which was much). So now there were basically just tenses to change. Obits we have are short, but there may be more. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:59, 22 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Another obit added. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:06, 24 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Will we manage do deal with this anytime soon, or should I move him to 21 Nov when the obits first appeared? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:41, 25 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Some hours later: same question. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:22, 25 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

  • Comment "Television, DVD and video productions" isn't sourced. Better comment out? Grimes2 (talk) 17:38, 25 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    It was commented out. Someone opened it. Sigh. Will comment out again. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:30, 25 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support Article seems to be OK now. Grimes2 (talk) 19:34, 25 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    Thank you. At that point, I moved the entry from 18 Nov - day of death - to 21 Nov when the first obits came. He should not get ignored because of days passing before his death became known. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:26, 25 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Posted. --PFHLai (talk) 04:37, 26 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    Thank you, - I was getting nervous ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:12, 26 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

(Posted) RD: Wilko Johnson[edit]

Article: Wilko Johnson (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Sky News, THR
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: More sources needed. Looks good now. Sunshineisles2 (talk) 18:06, 23 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

  • Comment There is one spot in prose that has a cn tag and discography is mostly unsourced. I don't want to !oppose, as 95% of the article is fine, but the discography needs to be sourced. Curbon7 (talk) 03:28, 24 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Oppose Unsourced birth name and birth date. Also unsourced that he changed his legal name to "Wilko Johnson".—Bagumba (talk) 00:11, 26 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    @Bagumba Found and added a citation for his birth date and name. Sunshineisles2 (talk) 05:20, 26 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    @Sunshineisles2: Thanks. I don't have access to that source. If "Wilko Johnson" is only his stage name and was not changed to his legal name, it should not show "born" in the lead sentence per MOS:FULLNAME and MOS:BIRTHNAME. —Bagumba (talk) 09:39, 26 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    Fixed, and marked ready again. Black Kite (talk) 10:17, 26 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    The phrasing the article uses is that he "[changed] his stage name to Wilko Johnson" in 1972, which to me infers that he didn't change his legal name. Though it's also possible he might have later, but the source doesn't confirm that. Sunshineisles2 (talk) 14:30, 26 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • PostedBagumba (talk) 15:05, 26 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

(closed) Saudi Arabia beat Argentina[edit]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Article: 2022 FIFA World Cup Group C (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: Saud Arabia defeat Argentina 2-1 in one of the biggest upsets in FIFA World Cup's history. (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:
Nominator's comments: A shocking result that re-writes football history and defies all expectations favouring Argentina before the tournament. --Stop racism immediately (talk) 13:07, 22 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Oppose and suggest SNOW close. Every World Cup has upsets, and this one is no different. YD407OTZ (talk) 13:11, 22 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
As we have the ongoing, there is no need to post any individual game result, regardless of how "shocking" the result may have been. Masem (t) 13:12, 22 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Oppose and snow close per YD407OTZ and Masem. BilledMammal (talk) 13:13, 22 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Oppose - I'm inclined to let the nomination run rather than SNOW closing it shortly after it being opened, but I agree that no individual game result sans the final will have lasting significance.--🌈WaltCip-(talk) 13:18, 22 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Oppose any and all individual match results other than the final. Agree with snow closing this. Thryduulf (talk) 13:37, 22 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Oppose on quality, at a minimum. No prose update regarding its significance beyond any other WC game.—Bagumba (talk) 13:39, 22 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Oppose unfortunately, I feel that this just doesn't really have much lasting significance. Comparable other updates like North Korea's defeat of Italy in the 1966 World Cup and Algeria's defeat of West Germany in the 1982 World Cup don't have standalone articles, suggesting limited long-term notability. As slight a caveat to that, there is an article on the Disgrace of Gijón, but that merely manages Algeria's win as part of the background for said match. TartarTorte 13:47, 22 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
* Oppose, Snow Close Extremely minor match, not at all reported. 𝕸𝖗 𝕽𝖊𝖆𝖉𝖎𝖓𝖌 𝕿𝖚𝖗𝖙𝖑𝖊 🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦 ☎️ 📄 14:01, 22 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Oppose. A unique, beautiful and historic victory that made many people happy, but which, unfortunately, cannot go to ITN. But thank you so much for bringing it here and reminding us once again of this wonderful moment. :) MSN12102001 (talk) 14:05, 22 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

2022 Anyang factory fire[edit]

Article: 2022 Anyang factory fire (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: A factory fire has killed at least 38 people and two others injured in Anyang, central China. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​At least 38 people die and two others are injured in a factory fire in Anyang, China.
News source(s): AL Jazeera, The Guardian, CNN, CGTN, BBC
Credits:

Nominator's comments: Need expansion. Ainty Painty (talk) 09:36, 22 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Support - Awful tragedy, notable enough for ITN. Article definitely needs expansion before it can go up, only four or five sentences atm. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 10:25, 22 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Oppose Article is WAY too short for main page posting. Probably needs a 4x to 5x expansion to be main page ready. --Jayron32 14:10, 22 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Oppose. No reason to believe this is anything other than a run of the mill tragedy. Even fires that engulf whole towns are relatively common and not immediately newsworthy. I'm not convinced this even meets event notability guidelines. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 15:35, 22 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Oppose, Article is poor. Alex-h (talk) 17:19, 22 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Support on event notability. However, oppose on article quality, needs to be lengthened & expanded before posting on ITN. SBS6577P (talk) 10:49, 23 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Oppose on quality. The article needs to be expanded thoroughly. Vida0007 (talk) 19:34, 23 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Support on notability, but oppose on article quality. Nobody seems to be working on it. Schwede66 23:33, 25 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

(Posted) RD: Jeremy Lloyds[edit]

Article: Jeremy Lloyds (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: English cricketer and umpire, I've expanded a bit from the obituaries. Death date not stated but announced on 21 November - Dumelow (talk) 20:15, 21 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

  • Support, although the "Role" field in the infobox should include his role during his playing career. Thryduulf (talk) 20:52, 21 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks, I added "all-rounder" and his playing dates - Dumelow (talk) 22:51, 21 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

(Posted) Earthquake in Java[edit]

Article: 2022 West Java earthquake (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​A 5.6 magnitude earthquake kills at least 56 people in Java, Indonesia. (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Nominator's comments: Breaking news so updates are awaited. Andrew🐉(talk) 10:39, 21 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

  • Support, the article is already pretty substantial. --Tone 11:12, 21 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    Support Article seems good, seems to have high enough death count. Editor 5426387 (talk) 18:02, 21 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support on the basis of death toll & article quality. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 11:15, 21 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Posted. Looks OK quality-wise, and fairly clear notability with supports above, so don't see a reason to hang around.  — Amakuru (talk) 11:18, 21 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Post-posting support – Impressive work on the article, so quickly after the disaster. Looks like a solid entry for ITN indeed. ~Maplestrip/Mable (chat) 13:31, 21 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Post-posting support although I would have preferred leaving more time for discussion. Quantum XYZ (chat) 15:24, 21 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Post-posting support Major significance in the event, high casualties (162 dead according to BBC), self explanatory to put it in ITN SBS6577P (talk) 23:11, 21 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Comment Agreed that this was obviously going to get posted. But also see the point about the speed with which it happened. Less than an hour from the nomination with only three supports is pretty fast for what is supposed to be a consensus oriented discussion open to the community. Anywho, no harm no foul. But in general, I think we should normally not post blurbs before the ink on the nomination is dry. -Ad Orientem (talk) 03:05, 22 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    Disagree, per WP:BURO. If the only rationale for waiting is to avoid making people unhappy they didn't get to contribute to the discussion, then that's a non-rationale. WP:SNOW also applies to things that don't have a snowball's chance in hell of not being posted. This was posted appropriately at the time it was posted. It didn't have to wait. --Jayron32 14:13, 22 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    There was never any doubt that a disaster of this magnitude would meet the significance threshold. All that needed to be determined at that point was whether the article was of sufficient length and quality, and had been updated. That this was posted quickly was simply a confirmation that the boxes had been ticked. 🌈WaltCip-(talk) 15:14, 22 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Cianjur earthquake damage 1.jpg
  • Image request May we have an image to accompany the blurb? Discussion is still open so I thought this place could still hold request. Dora the Axe-plorer (explore) 22:13, 23 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • You should enquire on WP:ERRORS, though I'm not sure how much luck you'll have as the image doesn't look great at low resolutions. Anarchyte (talk) 08:50, 24 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

(Closed) Sebastian Vettel retirement from Formula One[edit]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Proposed image
Article: Sebastian Vettel (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​Four-time Formula One world champion Sebastian Vettel retires from the sport after 15 seasons and 300 Grand Prix entries. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​Four-time world champion Sebastian Vettel retires from Formula One.
News source(s): BBC, Motorsport.com
Credits:
Nominator's comments: Sebastian Vettel is one of only five people in the history of Formula 1 to win four or more world championships, has raced for a very long time, and is now retiring from the sport. Chrill (talk) 01:11, 21 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Oppose Consensus holds that we do not post sports retirements due to how ephemeral they tend to be. 🌈WaltCip-(talk) 02:07, 21 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Oppose Sports retirements can be undone, hence why we do not post them. --Masem (t) 02:08, 21 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Oppose Even if it was certain to remain, I don't think there's any sports retirement I'd support posting. Can't think of one athlete. Even MJ's retirement in 1993, I don't think. – Muboshgu (talk) 02:17, 21 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Oppose. Beyond concerns about posting or not posting retirements, I don't see Vettel's as big enough to merit posting. Maybe among active drivers Hamilton would be considered, but that is all, in my opinion. DarkSide830 (talk) 02:58, 21 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Oppose I'm more open to posting sports retirements than others around here, but it really needs to be a Messi-level retirement, a "greatest ever in their sport" retirement, or at the very least the greatest of their generation, and that's Lewis Hamilton, not Vettel. NorthernFalcon (talk) 03:17, 21 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Oppose — Who's he? STSC (talk) 04:13, 21 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
This type of comment is unhelpful. --RockstoneSend me a message! 04:27, 21 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Oppose -- sports retirements can be reversed. --RockstoneSend me a message! 04:27, 21 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Oppose I don't see the signifiance, even given his career achievenment. Suggest SNOW close. Unnamelessness (talk) 04:59, 21 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Oppose As a Vettel fan, this is really sad for me to say this, but I don't see how this is significant enough to be posted. Guys like Lewis Hamilton, you could make an argument, but Vettel isn't significant enough to be put on ITN. TheBlueSkyClub (talk) 05:33, 21 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Needs attention - Ready to post) 2022 Kazakh presidential election[edit]

Proposed image
Articles: 2022 Kazakh presidential election (talk · history · tag) and Kassym-Jomart Tokayev (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​President Kassym-Jomart Tokayev wins reelection bid in the 2022 Kazakh presidential election following constitutional amendments in extending presidential term to seven years. (Post)
Alternative blurb: Kassym-Jomart Tokayev is a reelected as Kazakhstan's president for a second 7-year term following the January 2022 unrest and the constitutional referendum.
Alternative blurb II: Kassym-Jomart Tokayev wins snap election to serve for another seven-year term as Kazakhstan's president following the events of January 2022 and the constitutional referendum.
Alternative blurb III: Kassym-Jomart Tokayev is declared winner of the 2022 Kazakh presidential election following unrest in January and the constitutional referendum.
News source(s): DW, SCMP, Reuters
Credits:

 ShadZ01 (talk) 00:57, 21 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Support altblurb - Typos need to be fixed, but notable event. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 12:56, 21 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support Presidential election, I would go with alternative blurb.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Cherrell410 (talkcontribs) 02:29, 2022 November 20 (UTC)
  • Oppose This is orange-tagged for good reason; it needs extensive copy-editing. This is a big job because the page is huge. But it doesn't actually have a section with the results, let alone prose about them. To find out what actually happened, I looked at the news coverage. There's nothing on my usual sources of BBC and NYT so I read the report on Al Jazeera which seems quite good. The incumbent won by a landslide, of course, and it's amusing that the runner-up was "against everyone".
BTW, Al Jazeera also reports how the name change of the capital to Nursultan worked out. That was nominated in 2019 but we didn't run it. Just as well, the name has recently been changed back to Astana. "It holds the Guinness World Record for the city with the most name changes."
Andrew🐉(talk)
  • Oppose Article quality is poor, furthermore does not accurately reflect this is a sham election and in name only. Added alblurb3. Abcmaxx (talk) 13:07, 21 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I think its worth noting that the OSCE didn't say that it was a sham election, nor did it record instances of voter suppression (as of the time of writing) - normally if elections are not free or fair, the OSCE would at least criticise how the elections were run - however OSCE's criticism for this election has been limited to lack of transparency of media ownership and how other candidates' campaigns were similar to (and indistinguishable from) Tokayev's. JaventheAldericky (talk) 20:21, 21 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support Either altblurb 1 (with typos fixed) or altblurb 3. Notable presidential election that comes on the back of the 2022 Kazakh unrest earlier this year. JaventheAldericky (talk) 20:21, 21 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Comment Any further issues here? The article looks exhaustive but I didn't read everything. --Tone 09:56, 22 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • The orange cleanup banner tag is still there right at the top. A results table has been added but no prose. Andrew🐉(talk) 11:29, 22 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    I see a yellow banner, which is in my view not problematic. As for the results prose, yes, this is missing. Tone 16:23, 23 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Comment The results have been added into the article; if there's no other concerns, the article can be posted. JaventheAldericky (talk) 16:43, 25 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

November 20[edit]

Armed conflicts and attacks

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Sports


(Posted) RD: Mickey Kuhn[edit]

Article: Mickey Kuhn (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Hollywood Reporter, The Telegraph
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Working on this page, looks ok. Nohomersryan (talk) 20:48, 22 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Support. Golden age actor, filmography is referenced. Kirill C1 (talk) 15:28, 23 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

(Posted) 109th Grey Cup[edit]

Article: 109th Grey Cup (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​In the 109th Grey Cup, the Toronto Argonauts defeat the Winnipeg Blue Bombers 24-23. (Post)
Credits:

Article updated
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: Canadian football's annual championship game, ITN/R. Article has already been updated and should be good. NorthernFalcon (talk) 20:21, 21 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

(Closed) RD: Jason David Frank[edit]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Article: Jason David Frank (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): AP
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: star of the Power Rangers Thriley (talk) 22:39, 20 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support but wait Notable actor with a nice article, but wait until/if an actual death date is released. Cherrell410 (talk) 22:51, 20 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    Not sure that matters, the publication of his death was today, and that's what we usually go by. - Floydian τ ¢ 01:15, 21 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Oppose Not a good quality article, many citations needed, and some early life details (like high school, for instance) are missing or out of place. And we may never get the exact date of death (especially if he died by suicide and was found later), and can go with date of announcement. – Muboshgu (talk) 02:18, 21 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Oppose. Orange tagged for more citations. Thryduulf (talk) 12:03, 22 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Too many paragraphs without footnotes. Filmography is largely unsourced. MMA stats tables are also unsourced. Please add more REFs. --PFHLai (talk) 05:04, 26 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) RD: Hebe de Bonafini[edit]

Article: Hebe de Bonafini (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Clarin
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 gobonobo + c 20:56, 20 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

RD: Greg Bear[edit]

Article: Greg Bear (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Gizmodo
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Sci-fi author Blaylockjam10 (talk) 12:48, 20 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

(Closed) FIFA World Cup opening ceremony[edit]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Articles: 2022 FIFA World Cup (talk · history · tag) and 2022 FIFA World Cup opening ceremony (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​The 2022 edition of the FIFA World Cup has opened in Qatar. (Post)
News source(s): Al Jazera, BBC, The Guardian, Daily Mail
Credits:
 Ainty Painty (talk) 15:28, 20 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
We do not post the opening ceremony of the world cup - either its ongoing or the final result. Masem (t) 15:51, 20 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Oppose I know where all this fuss about the FIFA World Cup comes from, but it's not our business to navel-gaze it in every single accept. Wait until the winner is known in less than a month and post it then. There are much more significant things of earth-transforming nature happening, such as the conclusion of the UN Climate Change Conference. This is a long-awaited event for fun that garners the attention of billions of people, but it definitely won't change the world in any way.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 17:07, 20 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    Probably because it has a bigger global audience than any sporting event in the history of the universe. But I guess it's not the Superbowl or NCAA so it's meaningless to most of our readers. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 17:42, 20 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Ongoing We do it for the Olympics, and the World Cup has a bigger global audience than that. Black Kite (talk) 18:07, 20 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Ongoing - no blurb. nableezy - 18:37, 20 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Oppose - Already covered in Ongoing. We will post the final result. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 18:50, 20 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Oppose Not on par with the Olympics opening ceremony. Also, this is a stub. – Muboshgu (talk) 18:51, 20 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

2022 United Nations Climate Change Conference[edit]

Article: 2022 United Nations Climate Change Conference (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​The 27th Conference of Parties of the UNFCCC closes with major nations agreeing to a global loss and damage fund for poor nations impacted by climate change. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​The COP27 conference closes with an agreement to compensate poor nations for climate change loss and damage.
Alternative blurb II: ​At the 27th Conference of Parties of the UNFCCC, the first loss and damage fund is agreed upon.
News source(s): The Guardian, CNN, AP
BBC (for alt1)
Credits:

Article needs updating

Nominator's comments: The article hasn't yet been updated with this news, but it is what is being called a landmark negotiation of the major countries there. Masem (t) 06:03, 20 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

  • Support once updated - An important and notable outcome, although it probably won't actually be implemented. Quantum XYZ (chat) 06:43, 20 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support when updated per nom and Quantum, big event also, consensus to post was established last week. echidnaLives - talk - edits 08:41, 20 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Oppose The article seems quite a mess with multiple orange tags, lots of future tense and no clear summary of what actually happened. Andrew🐉(talk) 08:47, 20 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Comment: More concise alt blurb proposed. Sandstein 14:25, 20 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support. But we should mention that no agreement has been reached to get to 1.5 C. It's like visiting a patient in the hospital and reporting that according to the doctors, the kidneys of the patient have improved somewhat but failing to report that the overall condition of the patient has deteriorated to the point that the patient is not expected to survive. Count Iblis (talk) 14:26, 20 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    I do not believe that the 1.5C aspect was even on the table as a major point of discussions/negotiations. It is not our place to criticize the conference for not addressing that, and from what I've seen, its only been subjective criticism the conference didn't include that from RSes, which are things we don't include in ITN blurbs. Masem (t) 14:28, 20 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support in principle, but the article needs to elaborate better what’s in the proposed blurb.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 14:35, 20 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Oppose solely on article quality per above. In particular the issues surrounding the orange tags will need to be resolved. -Ad Orientem (talk) 14:53, 20 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support - Notable outcome, notable event. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 18:49, 20 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Oppose per Andrew Davidson and Ad Orientem 69.203.136.65 (talk) 18:52, 20 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Comment I have updated with a key outcome. Arcahaeoindris (talk) 22:32, 21 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

(Posted) Ongoing: FIFA World Cup[edit]

Article: 2022 FIFA World Cup (talk · history · tag)
Ongoing item nomination (Post)
Credits:

Nominator's comments: Starts in about 7 hours (4pm UTC), posted ongoing in 2018echidnaLives - talk - edits 08:34, 20 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

  • Support as there is precedent per nom. I'm not sure if the WP:ITN/R label is appropriate though, as I think it is only the final result that is ITN/R. Quantum XYZ (chat) 08:40, 20 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Weak support Gigantic sporting event lasting almost one month. Hundreds of car horns go off at night when I'm trying to sleep. My concerns are the nine citation needed tags. ~~ lol1VNIO (I made a mistake? talk to me) 10:21, 20 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Oppose I don’t think anything other than the Olympics deserves a place in ongoing. The FIFA World Cup is a tournament in a single sport featuring national teams from only 32 countries that play to win a single set of medals. Ongoing exists as a practical tool for events that may require posting multiple blurbs, and it is more suited for events with multiple disciplines and thereby multiple sets of medals awarded on a daily basis. I don’t think that any game other than the final of this tournament would merit a blurb, so it’s better to wait until it ends and post the conclusion with the winning team. I’d say that even the world championships in athletics and swimming, whose formats allow participation by almost all countries and feature major developments every day, are a better fit. This has nothing to do with popularity but with the practical use of ongoing.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 10:39, 20 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    The World Cup was one of the events in mind when the Ongoing aspect was proposed. Masem (t) 13:37, 20 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    We used to post a sticky with an Olympic summary even before Ongoing was considered. Its introduction was inspired by a sticky posted for the Arab Spring.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 13:45, 20 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    Support The tournament is the culmination of a competition in which 206 national teams entered. Other than Olympics most watched sporting event. Of global interest, even for those who didn’t qualify. yorkshiresky (talk) 15:46, 20 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    I don't think it's relevant if it's watched by 4 billion people (I watch almost every match regularly, so what?). The point is that the format of this competition is incompatible with Ongoing. Unlike the Olympics, at which there are notable events with world records in different sports that would merit a blurb every day, the matches played at this tournament are chiefly qualifying events for the final.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 17:01, 20 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Oppose - I'd rather we just post the final result. Lee Vilenski (talkcontribs) 10:54, 20 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Oppose. Sporting tournaments are ongoing by nature, but not in a manner that warrants posting as such. We'd get laughed out of the building if we proposed making the NCAA Men's Basketball tournament into an ongoing item. 🌈WaltCip-(talk) 14:51, 20 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The NCAA basketball tournament is like a mini-league, not a single (ongoing) event, and involves mid-tier amateur athletes of one country. It's nothing alike, of course it would SNOW quickly. Kingsif (talk) 15:50, 20 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
64 teams play 1 game, the 32 winners play 1 game, the 16 winners play 1 game, the 8 winners play 1 game, the 4 winners play 1 game, the 2 winners play 1 game, lose at any time and can't even play anymore that year. Nothing like a league. Like the knockdown stage of the World Cup tournament but 4 times more teams. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 13:57, 21 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
So like the UEFA Champions League format once it's down to 16. Kingsif (talk) 01:53, 22 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Oppose per above. ITN is not a sports ticker. Once the tournament is over, and assuming article quality is up to scratch, we can post the results. -Ad Orientem (talk) 14:55, 20 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support - In my opinion an obvious Ongoing event. Of world importance, and with 3-4 billion viewers for the entire competition.BabbaQ (talk) 15:02, 20 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Comment - we should blurb that it has begun, per the Olympics (and the World Cup is a bigger event globally than the Olympics). Then roll down to Ongoing until the final result is known.  — Amakuru (talk) 15:05, 20 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support Blurb per Amakuru. DarkSide830 (talk) 15:24, 20 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support opening ceremony blurb then roll into ongoing per Amakuru. Significant global event, most popular sport in the world. The purpose of ITN is to signpost from the main page articles that people might be looking for because the subjects are in the news, I can't think this won't be highly-sought for the whole duration, not just start and end. And if true that it is a more-viewed event than the Olympics, which is of a similar duration and also global, I can only imagine opposes are because some users don't think association football is important. Kingsif (talk) 15:50, 20 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    Unlike the Olmypics opening ceremony, there's little pomp or rationale for the World Cup version. Ongoing is good enough as there is no requirement that we must have a blurb before something is added to ongoing. Masem (t) 15:57, 20 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support important event -- lomrjyo talk 16:29, 20 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support at least Ongoing. Per Amakuru, the World Cup is a bigger event globally than the Olympics - couldn't have said it better myself. 69.203.136.65 (talk) 16:42, 20 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    The Olympics are covered in Ongoing because there is no final result. It has nothing to do with viewership. -Ad Orientem (talk) 17:15, 20 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support per consistent precedents, the 2010, 2014 and 2018 World Cups were posted as ongoing: [7], [8], [9]. Looks like its ongoing status is deeply rooted. Brandmeistertalk 18:06, 20 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support obviously. Kirill C1 (talk) 18:06, 20 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support We do it for the Olympics, and the World Cup has a greater audience than that. No-brainer, really. Black Kite (talk) 18:09, 20 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support... MSN12102001 (talk) 18:32, 20 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Posted ongoing. --Tone 18:38, 20 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Oppose posting, support pulling from ongoing and posting the final result. Also, fuck Qatar and FIFA. Bribery and corruption sucks. a!rado🦈 (CT) 13:09, 21 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    This is not the forum for your personal spin on FIFA.--🌈WaltCip-(talk) 13:29, 21 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    This is neither my nor personal nor spin, and even not any combination of those. It's universal knowledge. But thanks for notifying about WP:NOTFORUM. Anyways, I don't care. Have a nice day! a!rado🦈 (CT) 14:55, 21 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    If you are going to tell me to fuck off, then do so verbatim rather than couching it behind a sarcastic bluelink. Thank you. 🌈WaltCip-(talk) 14:57, 21 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Nominated ongoing for ITN/R.--🌈WaltCip-(talk) 13:29, 21 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Support per above Editor 5426387 (talk) 18:59, 21 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

(Closed) 2022 Colorado Springs shooting[edit]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Article: 2022 Colorado Springs shooting (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​At least five people are killed and eighteen people are injured in a mass shooting at a gay nightclub in Colorado Springs, Colorado. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​The suspect in a mass shooting that killed five people at a gay nightclub in Colorado Springs, Colorado was charged with murder and hate crimes.
News source(s): AP NBC News US News
Credits:

Article needs updating
 User:Jgeorge20 (t) 12:28, 20 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[reply]
  • Support and wait the article needs more information to reflect on the latest updates of this controversy. Article also needs to be expanded as well. Sarrail (talk) 13:25, 20 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Oppose good faith nom. Mass shootings in the US are tragically so commonplace that posting any but the most extreme cases, with extremely high body counts, would turn ITN into an American crime blotter. -Ad Orientem (talk) 14:47, 20 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
This was a hate crime, giving it a distinction over other mass shootings that occur with similar casualty rates. I'm also not sure how you'd define extremely high body counts. Double digits? Triple digits? 🌈WaltCip-(talk) 14:48, 20 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
For the US? High double digits. We posted the Orlando night club shooting with near 50 killed. I think that was reasonable. Hate crime is neither here nor there. The lives lost here are no more sacred than the five people murdered last month in Raleigh NC. We are not here to promote causes, and special victims. See WP:RGW. -Ad Orientem (talk) 15:00, 20 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I think the point is that a hate crime mass killing would raise it above the "commonplace." Pawnkingthree (talk) 15:11, 20 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Precisely. Ad Orientem wanted to know how this was not commonplace. I gave a reason. I'm not trying to right great wrongs. I'm explaining why this is different from other mass shootings that are not considered newsworthy. 🌈WaltCip-(talk) 15:15, 20 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Hate crimes= special causes/special victims= WP:RGW. Beyond which, no motive has been established per Masem, though that is a reasonable suspicion. -Ad Orientem (talk) 17:11, 20 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
If posting a shooting at a gay club is "RGW" (and I disagree with that, I think it makes it more newsworthy in keeping with the gay- and drag-panic from the Republican Party that has played out this year, with Libs of TikTok attacking the bar after the shooting), then what should we consider lumping two different shootings with different motivations and circumstances together when we should evaluate each separate situation independently? – Muboshgu (talk) 17:18, 20 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I have looked at this and concluded that if we exclude promoting special causes/people, there is nothing particularly significant about this in a country where mass shootings occur with greater frequency than my stopping at a gas station. Further, the death toll in this incident appears to be on the average side for American mass shootings. The issue is not motive. Every murder has a motive and every murder is appalling. The issue is commonality. You are of course, free to disagree. Ad Orientem (talk) 17:38, 20 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Then I guess we're at an impasse. 🌈WaltCip-(talk) 14:26, 21 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Comparing a shooting with no known motive to a shooting at an LGBT club that was scheduled to host a drag brunch tomorrow is a mistake. Not every mass shooting in the U.S. gets nominated, so we're in no risk of being overrun by these noms. We have to weigh their merits independently rather than just dismiss them if they're not "extreme". – Muboshgu (talk) 16:51, 20 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
fwiw, motive has yet to be clearly established, though the Occum's Razor lineup of the situation would suggest that it is obviously a hate crime against the LGBTQ+ community. Masem (t) 15:13, 20 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The cause for pretty much every shooting rampage is the gunman's hatred for a certain group of people, be they co-workers, co-students, teachers, policemen, women, blacks, whites, Asians, Jews, Muslims, Christians etc. I fail to see how this particular shooting becomes more noteworthy, just because the victims happened to be part of the LGBTQ+ community. By US standards the death toll is not that high and this is merely one more in a litany of similar cases, so it is safe to say that it will be forgotten quickly by anyone not directly affected. Lord Gøn (talk) 21:43, 20 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Oppose per Ad. Very unfortunate event, regardless. --Bedivere (talk) 15:16, 20 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Oppose — Stub, low death count regardless. [email protected] (he/him) 15:18, 20 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support pending expansion Hate crimes are worth posting. Expansion beyond a stub is necessary though. – Muboshgu (talk) 16:23, 20 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Wait/Weak Support: The number of confirmed victims (deaths + injured) so far is 23, which surpasses the Buffalo supermarket shooting posted earlier this year. If confirmed to be motivated out of homophobic or conspiracy theory nonsense, then the motive more than make makes up for the "low" death toll. However, the article needs to be expanded before it can be posted. Mount Patagonia (talk) 16:31, 20 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Oppose commonplace event, wouldn't make the top 1000 global news events of the year. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 16:50, 20 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support. An Occam's Razor analysis of the shooting (at a queer nightclub that hosts drag brunches, on the eve of Transgender Day of Remembrance (which nobody upthread has brought up yet!)) strongly suggests that it's a hate crime. Especially considering that far-right "news" sources, politicians, etc. in the US have become more vehemently anti-queer, leading to stochastic terrorism. --Alison (Crazytales) (talkedits) 19:34, 20 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    ETA: I'm pretty much in agreement with Muboshgu upthread. --Alison (Crazytales) (talkedits) 19:35, 20 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I'm confused user:Crazytales. How is a trans person shooting up a queer nightclub on the eve of Transgender Day of Remembrance related to far-right anti-queer media outlets? Can you explain further the basis for your support here? Nfitz (talk) 04:09, 23 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support: I agree that this being a hate crime raises its importance, that's not WP:RGW. Five dead and eighteen injured is not a low # anyway. —VersaceSpace (talk) 19:44, 20 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    25 injured, according to the latest news updates. I'm not sure if that includes the gunman or not. --Alison (Crazytales) (talkedits) 20:15, 20 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Oppose Hate crime, racism, anti-LGBT sentiment, terrorism, the first ever shooting on a snowy Saturday in a night club located on the top of a hill overlooking a town with an electricity blackout and many more. These shootings in the US always have something “first” that makes them significant in any way. However, this is just another shooting in a country where the right to keep and bear arms is constitutionally protected. It’s like considering a deadly car accident in a country where driving a car is legal. I don’t know what else to say. Full stop.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 21:03, 20 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    ... we post car crashes on occasion, and not just ones in the small handful of jurisdictions where cars are illegal. The legality of the instruments used isn't really relevant to anythng, other than to trying to make political points. -- Tamzin[cetacean needed] (she|they|xe) 01:52, 21 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    Sure. We post car accidents in which a bus crashes and more than 50 people die. This isn’t that equivalent. The (il)legality is key to prevent (or at least mitigate) all this. Just call me when a law introducing gun controls will be passed and you’ve got my support. And, like it or not, this has nothing to do with politics. It’s just what it is in practice.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 06:37, 21 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Oppose per TRM. It's a sad state of affairs, but this is common now. The motives of the shooting is not important. Lee Vilenski (talkcontribs) 21:47, 20 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Oppose, and.... All the same reasons as others, plus, we don't know if it's a hate crime. The article explicitly says we don't know. So using that as an argument for posting doesn't work. HiLo48 (talk) 22:35, 20 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Comment Whatever the outcome of this nomination is, I'm a little more than thrilled that the discussion at least seems to be proceeding more civilly than with any of our previous nominations of this type. 🌈WaltCip-(talk) 23:31, 20 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Oppose. Random crimes are not inherently significant. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 23:49, 20 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Comment In order to make the item more accessible to all readers, the blurb should mention the country where this event took place. Chrisclear (talk) 23:51, 20 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support posting since this is a hate crime. --RockstoneSend me a message! 00:51, 21 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    "This is a hate crime" No source on that so far. Tube·of·Light 01:22, 21 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Weak oppose per Ad Orientem. Tube·of·Light 01:16, 21 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    Neutral (I changed my opinion after seeing Tamzin and Silent-Rains' rationales). Tube·of·Light 04:59, 21 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support. Mass shootings of this scale are, yes, sadly common in the U.S. But if the question is whether this is commonplace, per History of violence against LGBT people in the United States it looks like the last incident of this nature was the 2016 Orlando nightclub shooting. In that case, disagreement remains whether the motive was to target gay people, but in either event, mass shootings targeting gay nightclubs in the U.S. are a) rare and b) have a resonating effect in the U.S. LGBQ community (a community larger than the populations of many countries and the fanbases of many sports), as extensively documented regarding the Orlando shooting. -- Tamzin[cetacean needed] (she|they|xe) 01:48, 21 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support. As of now, it is the top story on BBC News, The Associated Press, ABC News, National Public Radio, CNN, NBC News, Inside Edition, The Washington Post, New York Times, The Washington Examiner, PBS News, Vox, TIME, USA Today, LA Times, The Guardian, Newsweek, Independent, The Atlantic, Mother Jones, Yahoo News, & plenty of other media outlets. Silent-Rains (Talk) 04:24, 21 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    I mean, 90% of the outlets you mentioned are American, so they would focus on an American mass shooting. AryKun (talk) 05:43, 21 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    Yes, those were just the media outlets that came to my mind first (i.e major news websites). I also only listed news sites where the shooting was the top story. In many foreign media outlets, the top story is the FIFA World cup (which is in ongoing) but the shooting is still on their front pages. I have also found that this has received international attention. Here are news reports in Russian, Spanish, Newbrew, Thai, & Bulgarian. The Wikipedia article itself has versions in French, Hebrew, & Russian - meaning it has likely gotten significant attention in countries that speak those languages. Silent-Rains (talk) 05:55, 21 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Many media outlets "foreign" to the USA customise their content for the location of the reader, so seeing this in sites like the BBC from within the USA doesn't prove much at all. HiLo48 (talk) 06:55, 21 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
International notability doesn't have to be proven. All that needs to be proven is that the item is significant and newsworthy. No qualifiers. 🌈WaltCip-(talk) 14:32, 21 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support — Readers should be informed about this sort of mass killing typically happened in the U.S. – STSC (talk) 04:26, 21 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support The attack took place during a commemoration of the Trans Day of Remembrance memorializing the trans people killed during the year. It was also during a drag show. Drag events have had an increase of threats and violence and children’s hospitals have faced bomb threats[9] in the past year for providing transgender healthcare for children. I also think 25 injured is notable. -TenorTwelve (talk) 06:27, 21 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support - no, this is not a common occurrence, and the reflexive dismissal of it as though it were should be disregarded. Mass casualty hate crimes are not common in the United States. And thats why its in the news across the world. nableezy - 07:07, 21 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    Whether or not it's a hate crime is speculation at this point, as we don't know the shooter's motives. Endwise (talk) 16:06, 21 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    Formal hate crime charges have been brought. nableezy - 17:35, 21 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support. This is important to publicize. Right-wing terrorism is escalating in the United States. This is a notable event on the Trans Day of Remembrance. The number killed is almost identical to the bombing in Istanbul already featured on the front page. This event should be included.73.229.27.91 (talk) 07:58, 21 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Who has decided it's right wing terrorism? HiLo48 (talk) 09:39, 21 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
It very clearly is. It's not a high bar to pass.
It is even being investigated as a hate crime - a step further than simply being right-wing terrorism. 73.229.27.91 (talk) 16:59, 21 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
He has been charged with 5 counts of murder, and 5 counts of 'committing a bias-motivated crime causing bodily injury'.
The event fits the criteria for right-wing terrorism as it's defined in that page. 73.229.27.91 (talk) 23:51, 21 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Oppose. Per Elijah, TRM and Kiril. Horrendous, but it’s a sad routine. _-_Alsor (talk) 09:36, 21 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Oppose Shootings seem common in Colorado Springs, let alone the entire USA – there were several reported in recent weeks. And notice that Colorado Springs shooting is a disambiguation page with numerous entries. And that's not including Columbine which is nearby. Andrew🐉(talk) 19:23, 21 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    War in Europe is a disambiguation page, I suggest we no longer consider ethnic conflicts or just general violence in Europe for this page as it is sadly a regular occurence. nableezy - 19:50, 21 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    War in Europe is not a disambiguation page; it's a redirect to a list. For 2022, that list just has the war in Ukraine and 2022 Corsica unrest. The latter was nominated at ITN but not posted. An even better European example is the recent 2022 Bratislava shooting – quite a similar event which was not posted at ITN. So, we see that similar low-level violence in Europe is not posted at ITN too. Q.E.D. Andrew🐉(talk) 08:46, 22 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support per Tamzin. Occam's Razor would indicate this is a hate crime. 🌈WaltCip-(talk) 12:17, 21 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    Occam's razor is just a type of best guess but, per WP:OR, we don't do guesswork here. What the relevant guideline, WP:CRIME, says is "A living person accused of a crime is presumed not guilty unless and until the contrary is decided by a court of law." Andrew🐉(talk) 13:08, 21 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    On ITN/C, we're forced to make a determination within 7 days (sometimes less) as to how significant an item is based on the facts available at the time. Of course, the investigation has not yet been completed, and it may take time before the shooter's intentions and motives become public knowledge. But since an ITN item becomes stale once it rolls past the 7-day mark, we have to make a judgment call, partially based on the circumstances surrounding the case. The circumstances are particularly stark in this shooting. Also, WP:BLPCRIME is not applicable here since the living person is not actually named in the nomination. 🌈WaltCip-(talk) 14:25, 21 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    Well, for comparison, the perpetrator of the Orlando nightclub shooting was actually motivated by his hatred of the United States/US imperialism, and initial speculation about his intent to target a gay nightclub was actually incorrect. We can't just "Occam's razor" our way into believing it a hate crime; Wikipedia should not engage in this kind of speculation. Endwise (talk) 16:06, 21 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Comment WP:OR prohibits using original research in article content. Period. "This policy does not apply to talk pages and other pages which evaluate article content and sources, such as deletion discussions or policy noticeboards." It has absolutely nothing to do with ITN yes/no decisions. (Similarly, WP:CRYSTAL and WP:RGW are just as irrelevant on this page. Heck, WP:NPOV doesn't apply here either.)— Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.91.40.241 (talk) 15:33, 21 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Presumably US gun murders should be put into ongoing once and for all. 128.91.40.241 (talk) 15:33, 21 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Not all murders by firearm are the same, and the tut-tutting above about "where it is constitutionally protected" belongs on a blog, not here. nableezy - 15:47, 21 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support Article meets main page standards, is being covered appropriately by news sources to demonstrate that it is a story in the news. Checks all of the boxes. --Jayron32 15:39, 21 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • comment: the onion has republished its 'No Way To Prevent This,' Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens article, suggesting that this may not be a run-of-the-mill event. dying (talk) 16:47, 21 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • now charged as a hate crime, altblurb suggested. nableezy - 17:33, 21 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    Yep; just saw that come through the NY Times. Unfortunately, the court records related to the prosecution will be sealed, so although they are charging this as a hate crime, we won't see the actual evidence that leads them to believe they have a case. 🌈WaltCip-(talk) 17:45, 21 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    The media has done rather a thorough job to point out all the red flags the suspect has to leave little doubt why it was a hate crime. That said for here the key is that he has been formally charged with it, and while a jury may find him not guilty of the hate crime aspect, the prosecution is going into this with that assertion. Masem (t) 18:00, 21 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    My thoughts exactly. The prosecution wouldn't press such a case if they felt they didn't have a chance of winning a conviction on those grounds, particularly if the evidence in this case is sealed. 🌈WaltCip-(talk) 18:09, 21 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support. As per Jayron32's comment above, this article checks all the boxes. It has also become (arguably) the biggest headline right now apart from the ongoing World Cup and the recent earthquake in Indonesia. Vida0007 (talk) 19:24, 21 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support It's been 36 hours, and this story is still on the front page of BBC (and 3rd in "Top Stories" at the time of writing) despite the World Cup. Ionmars10 (talk) 19:50, 21 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Oppose. Deaths of 20 people in Mexico or 100 in Africa don't make the front page, which is already too America-centric. Sheila1988 (talk) 20:30, 21 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    If you don't nominate these, we can't consider them. Masem (t) 13:11, 22 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support - This crime has quite reasonably attracted a lot of media attention as a hate crime with several victims. There's a lot of whataboutery in many of the oppose !votes. It's not attempting to Right Great Wrongs to observe that a newsworthy thing is newsworthy for more than just the death toll. Let's not try to use WP policy as a tool to beat down stories about the oppression of minorities. GenevieveDEon (talk) 22:35, 21 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support Major story, article is of sufficient quality. Pawnkingthree (talk) 22:39, 21 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support Important story and article is much better now compared to earlier edits Ppt91 (talk) 01:13, 22 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Oppose. Clearly below the death threshold for a US mass shooting. -LtNOWIS (talk) 04:19, 22 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    There is no such thing. 🌈WaltCip-(talk) 13:19, 22 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
While, User:WaltCip there may not be a hard number, it's below the death threshold for a Denver mass shooting - let alone the State of Colorado or that entire country. There were three bigger shootings in that locality in the last 20 months. Nfitz (talk) 20:17, 22 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Oppose based on the argument put forward by Kiril. Oriental Aristocrat (talk) 14:04, 22 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Oppose I would agree that if this is a hate crime, it would put it beyond routine mass shootings in the US. But this has not been established (charges are not it) and newer reports indicate other motivations. Considering the (fortunately) low death count and unclear motive as to the existence of a hate crime I am opposing this. Gotitbro (talk) 18:45, 22 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Oppose a shooting in the USA and only 5 dead? I'm sorry, is this notable because the death toll is so low? The choice of Americans to not have gun control makes this a regular occurrence - and yes, more than once a year is a regular occurrence. Good grief, there have been 3 bigger shootings in the Denver area in the last 20 months! Nfitz (talk) 20:14, 22 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    @Nfitz:, WP:MINIMUMDEATHS doesn't seem to exist. You're ignoring what makes this shooting notable. – Muboshgu (talk) 20:27, 22 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I'm not seeing anything User:Muboshgu that makes it notable. What do you see is notable about it? There seems to be claims it's a hate crime - but I don't see any evidence for that. Nfitz (talk) 04:09, 23 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

References[edit]

Nominators often include links to external websites and other references in discussions on this page. It is usually best to provide such links using the inline URL syntax [http://example.com] rather than using <ref></ref> tags, because that keeps all the relevant information in the same place as the nomination without having to jump to this section, and facilitates the archiving process.

For the times when <ref></ref> tags are being used, here are their contents:

  1. ^ Finley, Ben; Schoenbaum, Hannah (November 22, 2022). "TV meteorologist, pilot die in news helicopter crash". APnews.com. Associated Press. Retrieved November 22, 2022.
  2. ^ "WBTV helicopter crashes on I-77 South, two killed". WBTV.com. CBS News. November 22, 2022. Retrieved November 22, 2022.
  3. ^ Vera, Amir; Paget, Sharif; Alonso, Melissa (November 22, 2022). "Helicopter crash leaves TV meteorologist and pilot dead in Charlotte, North Carolina". CNN.com. CNN. Retrieved November 22, 2022.
  4. ^ "WBTV mourning the loss of meteorologist Jason Myers, pilot Chip Tayag". WBTV.com. CBS News. November 22, 2022. Retrieved November 22, 2022.
  5. ^ Lee, Hank; Brierton, James; Schiff, Blair (November 22, 2022). "Reaction to fatal WBTV helicopter crash - 2 dead in TV news helicopter crash". WCNC.com. NBC news. Retrieved November 22, 2022.
  6. ^ Off, Gavin (November 22, 2022). "A final day of flying: hovering over uptown, South End and a deadly path along I-77". charlotteobserver.com. The Charlotte Observer. Retrieved November 22, 2022.
  7. ^ Cox, Kallie; Marusak, Joe (November 22, 2022). "Live Updates: Charlotte meteorologist and pilot from WBTV killed in helicopter crash off Interstate 77". charlotteobserver.com. The Charlotte Observer. Retrieved November 22, 2022.
  8. ^ Oxenden, McKenna (November 22, 2022). "TV Meteorologist and Pilot Die in Helicopter Crash in North Carolina". NYtimes.com. The New York Times. Retrieved November 22, 2022.
  9. ^ https://www.advocate.com/news/2022/11/18/childrens-hospital-target-3rd-bomb-threat-over-trans-care?amp